Common Climber Marketplace is highlights small climbing-related businesses to help spread the word about their work and to help our community thrive
We are interviewing Tyler McPherson of ButoraUSA. Tyler is a part-owner of ButoraUSA, and overseas sales for their company and their parent distribution company, HMH Outdoors.
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Thank you for joining us Tyler. First can you give us a little background on HMH Outdoors and ButoraUSA?
HMH Outdoors started in 2015 to bring some of the best brands that they could find under one roof, and distribute and represent these brands to the climbing market, gyms, and retailers.
Butora was started in South Korea in 2014 by Korean climber and 20-year climbing-shoe-maker Nam Hee Do. We often get asked where the name Butora comes from, and in Korean, butora means “persistence and determination." It is used when telling a climber to "go for it, to stick it!”
As Butora was getting off the ground in Korea, several founding members of HMH Outdoors, including Bryan Hylenski, President and founder, was living in Korea and started the first foreigner-owned climbing non-profit organization Korea On The Rocks Initiatives (KOTRI). In 2015, Bryan returned to the U.S. and started HMH Outdoors, which houses the Butora brand, with a few of his climbing partners from Korea, myself included.
Butora was started in South Korea in 2014 by Korean climber and 20-year climbing-shoe-maker Nam Hee Do. We often get asked where the name Butora comes from, and in Korean, butora means “persistence and determination." It is used when telling a climber to "go for it, to stick it!”
As Butora was getting off the ground in Korea, several founding members of HMH Outdoors, including Bryan Hylenski, President and founder, was living in Korea and started the first foreigner-owned climbing non-profit organization Korea On The Rocks Initiatives (KOTRI). In 2015, Bryan returned to the U.S. and started HMH Outdoors, which houses the Butora brand, with a few of his climbing partners from Korea, myself included.
Butora USA is the first brand under our umbrella of climbing brands that we brought into HMH Outdoors. We strive to bring the industries best brands to the forefront of our representation efforts. Several members of our founding team were living, or had lived in Korea, during the formative years, and tested early versions of the shoes.
We work very closely with Mr. Nam, who oversees the brand internationally and the factory, which he owns, that produces the high-quality construction of the shoes. We have a team of athletes in the US that help evaluate working prototypes and refine what have become some of our best selling models.
Mr. Nam meets weekly with us virtually from Asia, and twice annually in person to develop the brand and its direction in the coming years.
We work very closely with Mr. Nam, who oversees the brand internationally and the factory, which he owns, that produces the high-quality construction of the shoes. We have a team of athletes in the US that help evaluate working prototypes and refine what have become some of our best selling models.
Mr. Nam meets weekly with us virtually from Asia, and twice annually in person to develop the brand and its direction in the coming years.
South Korea has a long climbing history and rock climbing is very popular there, both amongst Koreans and ex-pats. Can you tell us a little more about this scene?
Korea is a small country, South Korea specifically. The land is approximately 70% mountains, which leave a lot of exposed rock cliffs. There you can find all sorts of rock types including sandstone, andesite, basalt, limestone, and granite. There is sport climbing, long trad routes, as well as, a booming bouldering scene. Koreans are very dedicated people, and it shows in their dominance of the sport and how many climbers domestically climb at high grades there.
The expat scene is vast, with thousands of English teachers in the country, which is why I was there for three years. There is also a large US military presence. Nearly every crag has a mix of westerner and Korean climbers.
When our team operated KOTRI, our goal was to form a bridge between the expat scene and Korean scene, as the language barrier and cultural differences created more of a divide. KOTRI was our way to give back to the Korean people and land, and also leave a lasting and positive impression within their climbing community. The goal of KOTRI was to improve climbing areas and make them safer through conventional bolting and anchor building practices, and some sustainability through trail building and erosion control at the base of popular climbing areas.
The expat scene is vast, with thousands of English teachers in the country, which is why I was there for three years. There is also a large US military presence. Nearly every crag has a mix of westerner and Korean climbers.
When our team operated KOTRI, our goal was to form a bridge between the expat scene and Korean scene, as the language barrier and cultural differences created more of a divide. KOTRI was our way to give back to the Korean people and land, and also leave a lasting and positive impression within their climbing community. The goal of KOTRI was to improve climbing areas and make them safer through conventional bolting and anchor building practices, and some sustainability through trail building and erosion control at the base of popular climbing areas.
Butora does some unique things with their climbing shoes. Tell us more about the features that make them different from other shoes on the market?
Butora uses the highest quality materials available, from high-denier thread, to split German leather, and organic hemp in the lining of several models. Our location in Asia gives access to some really innovative and “new” materials to the climbing world, things that aren’t as readily approached in other major markets. Most of our models use a high-quality ABS midsole, which retains it’s shape and stiffness properties over the life of the shoe. It won’t break down like other midsole materials commonly used, especially in lower priced models. In fact the ABS midsole gives a better substrate to resole onto so that your shoes will have a longer lifespan. We also use engineered-knit-construction, which was popularized by the running industry, and is being used to create shoes that will behave and fit the way the designer intends.
Lastly, we make our own climbing rubber, branded as NEO and we have a couple of different kinds - NEO Fuse and NEO Force.
NEO rubber is manufactured in our own factory and meets the highest quality control measures set by Butora. The rubber is sourced at the highest grade butyl available. This ensures that the rubber is consistent throughout the manufacturing process and the life of the rubber while climbing. Butora’s special formulation allows for what we believe to be the best attributes of performance, durability and longevity. Butora owns every step of this process from 100% raw material to finished product and takes pride in offering the highest grade product available.
The NEO rubber recipe was designed to maximize friction, increase durability, prevent oxidation, cracking, and delamination. NEO Fuse is Butora’s stickiest rubber offering. Used on a majority of Butora’s shoes, Fuse is best suited to smearing, edging, and “smedging.” NEO Fuse excels In both indoor and outdoor climbing. NEO Force is Butora’s hardest rubber offering. It is sticky, extremely durable, and best suited to micro edging footwork on the smallest of foot holds. NEO Force also excels on granite slabs.
All rubber that is used in the factory is sustainably used, recycled, and repurposed when possible. Mr. Nam has created a way to reduce and virtually eliminate rubber waste at the factory, making our rubber production and application onto shoes more sustainable.
Lastly, we make our own climbing rubber, branded as NEO and we have a couple of different kinds - NEO Fuse and NEO Force.
NEO rubber is manufactured in our own factory and meets the highest quality control measures set by Butora. The rubber is sourced at the highest grade butyl available. This ensures that the rubber is consistent throughout the manufacturing process and the life of the rubber while climbing. Butora’s special formulation allows for what we believe to be the best attributes of performance, durability and longevity. Butora owns every step of this process from 100% raw material to finished product and takes pride in offering the highest grade product available.
The NEO rubber recipe was designed to maximize friction, increase durability, prevent oxidation, cracking, and delamination. NEO Fuse is Butora’s stickiest rubber offering. Used on a majority of Butora’s shoes, Fuse is best suited to smearing, edging, and “smedging.” NEO Fuse excels In both indoor and outdoor climbing. NEO Force is Butora’s hardest rubber offering. It is sticky, extremely durable, and best suited to micro edging footwork on the smallest of foot holds. NEO Force also excels on granite slabs.
All rubber that is used in the factory is sustainably used, recycled, and repurposed when possible. Mr. Nam has created a way to reduce and virtually eliminate rubber waste at the factory, making our rubber production and application onto shoes more sustainable.
How do you all approach the different types of climbing shoes – trad, versus sport, versus aggressive?
As a relatively young company (five years), we still have a lot of shoes we aim to release in the coming years. A lot of what we have released to date is to fill out our quiver of offerings to the climbing market. With gym climbing being so popular and the fastest growing sector in climbing, most of our new models have been geared toward those climbers, both as new climbers and more aggressive climbers that necessitate a bouldering specific or steep sport climbing shoe.
Every time our team gets together in person, at trade shows or our annual climbing trip, we each throw out a lot of ideas of what we want to see next, but there is simply an organic approach we must take and healthy pace at which to build our brand.
The shapes of climbing shoes have existed as they do for some time, a lot of the changes in shoes comes from the material evolution that is used in the construction of the shoes, to improve the fit and performances.
Every time our team gets together in person, at trade shows or our annual climbing trip, we each throw out a lot of ideas of what we want to see next, but there is simply an organic approach we must take and healthy pace at which to build our brand.
The shapes of climbing shoes have existed as they do for some time, a lot of the changes in shoes comes from the material evolution that is used in the construction of the shoes, to improve the fit and performances.
Shoes tend to be very individual. What if people are curious about the Butora shoe but don’t have a way to try them on?
Our team in the US is actively demoing across the country almost every weeknight of the year and is bound to come to a gym near you at least 1-2 times annually. Keep tabs on your local gyms social media platforms for posting of this info. You can also check out our retail partners on our dealer locator.
We also allow for exchanges (as long as the shoe is not used.) If you order from our website, try it on immediately at home, and if it doesn't work, send them back. We will pay for the shipping for one exchange!
Regarding fit, Butora makes most of our models in a narrow-fit and wide-fit style. This allows us to take a more gender-neutral approach to our line, but also offer a more precise fitting shoe for most climbers’ feet. On our website you will also see some shoes listed under the heading "Single." This means a single shoe of that type can be ordered, so if you have one foot that is larger than the other, you can customize your fit.
The properties of the materials we employ in the construction of the shoe also allow them to break-in to a climbers’ foot but not really stretch (a key property of the organic hemp), which means that someone considering a Butora shoe in a retail shop will fit the shoe as they intend to wear it, eliminating the old adage of "pain equals performance” and allowing them to be confident in the fit out of the box, knowing the shoe won’t really stretch once they get a few workouts in it.
We also allow for exchanges (as long as the shoe is not used.) If you order from our website, try it on immediately at home, and if it doesn't work, send them back. We will pay for the shipping for one exchange!
Regarding fit, Butora makes most of our models in a narrow-fit and wide-fit style. This allows us to take a more gender-neutral approach to our line, but also offer a more precise fitting shoe for most climbers’ feet. On our website you will also see some shoes listed under the heading "Single." This means a single shoe of that type can be ordered, so if you have one foot that is larger than the other, you can customize your fit.
The properties of the materials we employ in the construction of the shoe also allow them to break-in to a climbers’ foot but not really stretch (a key property of the organic hemp), which means that someone considering a Butora shoe in a retail shop will fit the shoe as they intend to wear it, eliminating the old adage of "pain equals performance” and allowing them to be confident in the fit out of the box, knowing the shoe won’t really stretch once they get a few workouts in it.
What are your thoughts on re-soling versus buying new shoes?
Re-soling is an approach we highly encourage, and this year (2020) have launched our in-house resoling operation, Backcountry Cobblers, attached to our Lander, Wyoming distribution center. While we run a business making goods to sell and certainly want to sell more, we have always aimed to make our shoes last as long as possible and stay out of the landfills. The materials we use, and our rubber, are designed to hold up through excessive use and maintain the shoe’s shape through multiple re-soles.
Sadly, I have found that with the growth of climbing in the gym market, the knowledge of re-soling is not as widespread as I expected it to be, and we are working to make re-soling better known.
Sadly, I have found that with the growth of climbing in the gym market, the knowledge of re-soling is not as widespread as I expected it to be, and we are working to make re-soling better known.
What is Butora’s business philosophy? And, why should climbers care?
Butora was built by climbers and for climbers.
Our philosophy is to bring products to the market that don’t trivialize the experience of trying on and buying climbing shoes. We want to make it simple by offering options in fit and volume for our shoes, providing comfort out of the box, and materials that ease the break-in process, while giving you a product that stands up to the abuse we put on our gear.
We try to offer as many demos around the country as possible, and to our knowledge, we are the most active in this pursuit. This gives our customers and our greater climbing community an opportunity to connect faces with the brand, as well as climb in demo shoes to have the confidence in the product before they purchase.
Since the products are developed by climbers and our company is ran by climbers, we have all put our own lives behind this brand. We wholeheartedly believe in Butora's performance and reputation. We believe in running our own factory to ensure that the quality and craftsmanship stand up to our expectations. And, we do all this as sustainably as possible.
Our philosophy is to bring products to the market that don’t trivialize the experience of trying on and buying climbing shoes. We want to make it simple by offering options in fit and volume for our shoes, providing comfort out of the box, and materials that ease the break-in process, while giving you a product that stands up to the abuse we put on our gear.
We try to offer as many demos around the country as possible, and to our knowledge, we are the most active in this pursuit. This gives our customers and our greater climbing community an opportunity to connect faces with the brand, as well as climb in demo shoes to have the confidence in the product before they purchase.
Since the products are developed by climbers and our company is ran by climbers, we have all put our own lives behind this brand. We wholeheartedly believe in Butora's performance and reputation. We believe in running our own factory to ensure that the quality and craftsmanship stand up to our expectations. And, we do all this as sustainably as possible.
What’s it like having a business that is based in Korea and the U.S.?
It does produce its own challenges, from cultural and language differences, to time-zone differences, to import-legalities, rising tariffs, and politics. Our team, having mostly all lived in Korea, understand many of the cultural effects, though the ever-changing international business side is something I don’t think you can ever get used to. Since I am mostly focused on the sales, I am safe from a lot of the stress and requirements to understand these issues as deeply as other members of our team.
Butora is a growing business, can you tell us what it’s like to break into the climbing shoe market?
It is a crowded market, especially with the growth in climbing - and there are so many good shoes and products out there. When we began five years ago, we took a really grassroots style approach and conducted more shoe demos at gyms in the U.S. than any other brand, and we continue to do so. I, and other members of our small company, effectively lived out of our vans for the first two years, visiting as many gyms and retailers as possible. My goal was to introduce our shoes to as many climbers as I could. All of that effort led to the recognition that Butora sees today. We believe, though, that the competition on the market encourages us to continue to be strong in innovation and design of our products, and that competition breeds better quality products.
Any business lesson learned? Growing pains?
Too many lessons to list really, and growing pains are always there - haha!
None of us came from sales, and most of us hadn’t ever worked in our current roles. While some of us had owned businesses or organizations prior to this venture, none of us were in this industry. We are 100% independently-owned with no outside investments. We poured our life-savings into the business, which has allowed us to operate independently of outside influence.
We were all climbers though, and the challenges that we encountered in our travel, mountaineering, and route-projecting, all helped develop our strengths and successes.
But we have also seen a large number of challenges in five short years. It is said, never go into business with friends and family, and there is probably truth to that for certain circumstances, but honestly, having been friends prior to starting Butora and HMH Outdoors, has allowed us to persevere in challenges that would have, undoubtedly, crippled others.
None of us came from sales, and most of us hadn’t ever worked in our current roles. While some of us had owned businesses or organizations prior to this venture, none of us were in this industry. We are 100% independently-owned with no outside investments. We poured our life-savings into the business, which has allowed us to operate independently of outside influence.
We were all climbers though, and the challenges that we encountered in our travel, mountaineering, and route-projecting, all helped develop our strengths and successes.
But we have also seen a large number of challenges in five short years. It is said, never go into business with friends and family, and there is probably truth to that for certain circumstances, but honestly, having been friends prior to starting Butora and HMH Outdoors, has allowed us to persevere in challenges that would have, undoubtedly, crippled others.
What are some exciting business successes you’ve seen?
In 2018 we partnered with USA Climbing to become the exclusive shoe sponsor of their organization which carries that partnership through the upcoming Olympics and introduction of the sport to the world stage at an Olympic level. We are excited to be partnering with the youth scene and helping the growing youth climbing culture to achieve their goals as climbers.
We have grown enough that we are able to make promising partnerships with great organizations that do good within the outdoor community. We have used our dollars to support organizations that give people of color a stronger voice, launched shoes during breast cancer awareness month with proceeds from sales support two different organizations enhancing cancer research, and, as we grow and add to our small team, we are consistently looking at the diversity we can bring to our company from a hiring standpoint.
We have grown enough that we are able to make promising partnerships with great organizations that do good within the outdoor community. We have used our dollars to support organizations that give people of color a stronger voice, launched shoes during breast cancer awareness month with proceeds from sales support two different organizations enhancing cancer research, and, as we grow and add to our small team, we are consistently looking at the diversity we can bring to our company from a hiring standpoint.
COVID has negatively impacted over 65% of small businesses in the U.S. and the climbing industry is getting hit hard. How has COVID impacted ButoraUSA?
Our brand partners are predominately the large number of climbing gyms and specialty retailers. These businesses were all forced to close at least temporarily and, in some parts of the US, are still closed or forced to re-close. We are seeing most buying behavior reduce or change drastically. Climbing Gyms that previously turned a lot in their retail space for items like shoes and harnesses, are selling considerably less as a whole, or seeing an increase to products like Liquid Chalk during the pandemic. With the unknown of being shut down again, or what the future holds for the livelihood of their businesses, their revenue is being driven to staff and overhead - simply keeping the lights on so that they can be in business next year.
Lastly, what role does climbing play in the lives of the Butora leadership/owners now?
Well, our small team all wear many hats and with the amount of work we all put it, climbing sometimes gets put on the back-burner. Personally, I’ve been climbing since I was 12, so over 20 years, although I don’t climb very actively any longer. Instead, I have found other less bodily-intense hobbies like boating and woodworking. Most members of our team still climb avidly, though, and have been climbing 10+ years each. A couple other members of our team also own and operate the Longmont Climbing Collective, a climbing gym in Longmont, Colorado, so they are living on the other side of our business as well, from the customer perspective, which gives us some great insights.