Photo Credit: Carlos Flores
The February 2021 edition of Common Climber is themed around rock climbing couples. Here we interview climbing couple Maggie and Charlie/Chuck* Odette. Both Maggie and Charlie are known for climbing hard [Maggie and Charlie have both sent T-Rex (5.14b) in Maple Canyon - see Maggie's account of her send] and for being over the age of 50 (Maggie is 51 and Charlie is 65.)
*Ok, first things first, I've seen it both ways in your posts - Is it Charlie or Chuck?
MAGGIE: Lol, this should actually be one of the interview questions…[Ed. - OK, we added it ;-)]. To most of the world, it’s Chuck. I’m oddly sound-sensitive and really dislike the hard “ck” sound at the end of Chuck, so on our first date we discussed the fact that I would call him Charlie, like his mom did.
MAGGIE: Lol, this should actually be one of the interview questions…[Ed. - OK, we added it ;-)]. To most of the world, it’s Chuck. I’m oddly sound-sensitive and really dislike the hard “ck” sound at the end of Chuck, so on our first date we discussed the fact that I would call him Charlie, like his mom did.
Maggie and Charlie Odette bouldering at Mario Land in Utah. Photo Credit: Carlos Flores
Every couple’s story has a beginning. Tell us about yours.
We met in 2007, at the annual Rocktoberfest event in the Red River Gorge, KY. That year it was combined with the Petzl Roctrip, and Charlie was there in his capacity as Athlete and Event Coordinator for Petzl America. Mutual friends introduced us to one another on the final evening of the festival. We had great conversation and danced a bit, but the timing was off. Charlie flew home to Utah, and I drove back up to my home in Michigan. Fast forward to exactly a year later, at the same event, when I spotted him talking to a group of people in the parking lot of Miguel’s Pizza and said “hello.” We made plans for my partner and me to join his party to climb the following day. Again, the timing was just a little bit off. This time we exchanged emails and phone numbers and kept in touch. By February of 2009, circumstances had changed and we made plans for our first date, eight days together in the New River Gorge. One trip to Michigan for Charlie, and one to Utah for me, and we knew it was solid. Rocktoberfest 2009 came around, and at the end of the event we rented a U-haul and drove my life west.
Every couple’s story has a beginning. Tell us about yours.
We met in 2007, at the annual Rocktoberfest event in the Red River Gorge, KY. That year it was combined with the Petzl Roctrip, and Charlie was there in his capacity as Athlete and Event Coordinator for Petzl America. Mutual friends introduced us to one another on the final evening of the festival. We had great conversation and danced a bit, but the timing was off. Charlie flew home to Utah, and I drove back up to my home in Michigan. Fast forward to exactly a year later, at the same event, when I spotted him talking to a group of people in the parking lot of Miguel’s Pizza and said “hello.” We made plans for my partner and me to join his party to climb the following day. Again, the timing was just a little bit off. This time we exchanged emails and phone numbers and kept in touch. By February of 2009, circumstances had changed and we made plans for our first date, eight days together in the New River Gorge. One trip to Michigan for Charlie, and one to Utah for me, and we knew it was solid. Rocktoberfest 2009 came around, and at the end of the event we rented a U-haul and drove my life west.
Both of you literally center your lives around climbing. You live on the road in your camper full time, in seeking out steep sport climbing and good weather conditions. How did you all decide on this lifestyle and how long have you been living in your tiny camper?
The decision dates all the way back to that eight-day first date. Since we lived in different states, it was a make-it-or-break-it scenario, so we made a point of having all of the important conversations right off the bat. Money, politics, religion, our views on human nature and quality of life. We’d both made the majority of our work/life decisions with climbing as a priority. Charlie had a plan to retire early, at 59-1/2, and climb full time, and that sounded pretty logical to me. The plan involved a modest lifestyle just indulgent enough to disqualify us from the “dirtbag” categorization, but frugal enough to be sustainable. His concern was that I would say, “Sure, let’s do it!” without really understanding what I was in for. But I understood, and was totally on board. We’ve moved into the trailer 5-1/2 years ago, on June 17th, 2015, and haven’t had any regrets.
Some people swear by needing to have their own space as a couple. Living in a tiny camper doesn’t really allow for that. How do you all view or approach the “need for space?”
Most of the time, if we’re not climbing, we’re still outdoors, but our camper is VERY small and the weather is not always friendly. Luckily, we both feel that physical space is overrated, and that spending time inside your own head is necessary for self-fulfillment. Mental space is only limited by the scope of your awareness. Charlie likes to remind people that the Japanese are so good at living in tight quarters because meditation and self-reflection are part of their culture.
Most of the time, if we’re not climbing, we’re still outdoors, but our camper is VERY small and the weather is not always friendly. Luckily, we both feel that physical space is overrated, and that spending time inside your own head is necessary for self-fulfillment. Mental space is only limited by the scope of your awareness. Charlie likes to remind people that the Japanese are so good at living in tight quarters because meditation and self-reflection are part of their culture.
Charlie Odette on Bulletproof Monk (5.14a) in Logan Canyon, UT. Photo Credit: Heidi Baxter
Both of you climb hard (5.13 and up). How does the hard climbing enter into the relationship? Do you push each other? Are you competitive? Are you supportive in specific ways?
It sounds cheesy, but we really only compete with our respective selves. Charlie is a 5’10”, 65-year-old man, and I’m a 5’2”, 51-year-old woman. Any comparison of our climbing is either strictly for analysis, or completely moot.
We do have like-minded goals, even though we may be focused on climbing on different routes. Fortunately, we both like climbing steep, gymnastic sport routes, so it’s easy to choose a crag we’re both happy with, that has projects for each of us in close proximity to one another. When we do work a project together, we share information, which helps us both obtain success more quickly. But we can’t always both be on our game at the same time, so it helps to have a “team” mentality. A send for one is a send for all.
Maggie Odette on Coast to Coast (5.12c), Logan Canyon, UT. Photo Credit: Carlos Flores
Is climbing ever a source of arguments in your relationship?
Of course! But the beauty of being present, which hard climbing demands, is that the argument happens, then it’s over. And climbing arguments are never about anything that important. They’re about things like a belay that needs to be tailored to minimize the distance of a fall or facilitate a hard clip; things that can be adjusted to help mitigate the issue. More often, individual frustration expresses itself in ways that seem to invite argument, but you have to recognize that as a personal battle. For Charlie, most of the time it’s a quick bout of anger, then a total letting go. For my part, when I hear myself start to whine, I know it’s time to be lowered to the ground.
We actually teach a couples’ clinic at the International Climbers’ Festival in Lander, WY called “The Honeymoon’s Over,” where we talk about a lot of this stuff and try to help couples come up with preventative solutions so they can have stress-free days climbing together.
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What is it that makes your relationship work and your climbing relationship work? (They may be different or the same…which is why I asked it this way.)
There’s an excerpt from Rainer Maria Rilke’s Letters to a Young Poet that we used in our wedding ceremony. It describes a good marriage as “one in which each partner appoints the other to be the guardian of his solitude, and thus they show each other the greatest possible trust.” We both have pretty strong, very different personalities. Although we’re together 24/7, we’re far from being in danger of losing site of who we are as individuals. Battle selection is a thing, too. On one hand, our regular people things, like philosophical and political views, are pretty well aligned, but on the other, we lived the majority of our adult lives before we met each other, which means we entered into this relationship pre-equipped with habits and idiosyncrasies. Some of those have been tempered or adapted over the time together, but most are pretty intact. I know that Charlie has an agenda for everything, even if he says he doesn’t, and he knows that I take forever to get myself going, even if it’s just for a routine crag day. He has very structured approach to things like time, training, climbing days, and trips to the grocery store. My approach to these things is - let’s say - loose, but it’s easier for me to try to follow an established schedule than it is for him to wing it. And Charlie’s learned that trying to get me to hurry up only slows me down. Also, he doesn’t like to have to move anything, ever, to get to something else (which is an impossible dream in 66 sq ft). As a result, there are a lot of things just sitting around out in the open in our trailer, which really grates on my nerves if I allow it to. So I don’t. It balances out. |
Charlie climbing Killer Bees (5.13d) in the Hurricave in Utah. Photo Credit: Heidi Baxter
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Do you have any tips for climbing couples out there?
It’s just rock climbing. It’s not rocket surgery, and you’re not saving any lives. Like all things in life, a balanced approach is strongly recommended. Listen to one another. Really listen, without pre-formulating a response in your head while your partner is speaking. You’ll be together long after you’re both too old to lift your bodies off the ground. When one of you succeeds, make it a team celebration, because a team is what you are. Lift each other up.
It’s just rock climbing. It’s not rocket surgery, and you’re not saving any lives. Like all things in life, a balanced approach is strongly recommended. Listen to one another. Really listen, without pre-formulating a response in your head while your partner is speaking. You’ll be together long after you’re both too old to lift your bodies off the ground. When one of you succeeds, make it a team celebration, because a team is what you are. Lift each other up.
Maggie Odette on The Big Brawl in Logan Canyon, Utah. Photo Credit: Carlos Flores
Where do you see yourselves in one year, five years, ten years? Do you dream your goals together or individually and then find ways to support each other in them?
We try not to plan too, too far ahead. We’ll stay on the road as long as we can, taking care of unfinished business, and exploring new areas. Since Chuck is 14 years older, we’re guessing that a time will come when I’ll still want to be pushing limits while he’s slowing down, as absurd as it feels to fathom him ever slowing down. Eventually, we’ll no doubt be revisiting crags to do all the classic moderates we never climbed, and then the easy classics, until one day we’ll don matching fringed leather jackets and get on our Harley’s (which we’ll need to buy) and tour the continent. These kinds of plans can’t be made alone.
We try not to plan too, too far ahead. We’ll stay on the road as long as we can, taking care of unfinished business, and exploring new areas. Since Chuck is 14 years older, we’re guessing that a time will come when I’ll still want to be pushing limits while he’s slowing down, as absurd as it feels to fathom him ever slowing down. Eventually, we’ll no doubt be revisiting crags to do all the classic moderates we never climbed, and then the easy classics, until one day we’ll don matching fringed leather jackets and get on our Harley’s (which we’ll need to buy) and tour the continent. These kinds of plans can’t be made alone.
Maggie and Charlie at Log Canyon, Utah. Photo Credit: Carlos Flores
ARTICLES WRITTEN BY MAGGIE IN COMMON CLIMBER: UTAH - Maple Canyon: This One Makes You Taller
WEBSITE: https://gravitychronicles.com
INSTAGRAM: @maggieodette
WEBSITE: https://gravitychronicles.com
INSTAGRAM: @maggieodette